I just happened to see a sticker on a fuel pump today that stated "may
contain up to 10% ethanol" while I was filling my car this morning.
Upon further investigation with my fuel retailer, the local fuel jobber,
and the fuel distributor here in Spokane, Washington that there is a
federal mandate to add 9 billion gallons of ethanol per year to the
nationwide gasoline fuel stream. A new twist is a 5.1 cent per gallon
federal fuel tax break to the oil companies to get this "alternative"
fuel into the market. Tomorrow (April 8) is the first day of the
program and the dealers get their price tonight. According to my
sources, there is a possibility that some retailers may opt out, however
if that 5.1 cent break is passed on to them, it won't be likely.

I was lucky and just happened to ask the right question at the right
time. I haven't seen an outcry on this issue by EAA, AOPA or any other
aviation group.

This is a nationwide situation. Not just in a few states. You may not
find non-ethanol autogas at your usual outlet. Our jobber started
mixing in ethanol last week, however I had not purchased any since
mid-March so was unaware.

In essence, with the 5.1 cent per gallon tax break, the US federal
government has just killed the Aviation autogas concept.

I'm trying to locate a new source, but may not be successful. The
ethanol is added at the distribution rack. Chevron and a couple others
are requiring their retailers to go to E-10.


Al Gilson

You only noticed this now? Most of the rest of us figured this out
years ago.

As far as welfare for the Oil companies, hey, I didn't vote for
Bush...
--
The establishment of Christianity arrested the normal development of
the physical sciences for over fifteen hundred years.
~ Andrew Dickson White

On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 21:01:53 -0700, Bob Fry wrote:

> The establishment of Christianity arrested the normal development of
> the physical sciences for over fifteen hundred years.

HOW HORRIBLE!

Al wrote:
>
>
> I'm trying to locate a new source, but may not be successful. The
> ethanol is added at the distribution rack. Chevron and a couple others
> are requiring their retailers to go to E-10.

Welcome to my world circa. 2003.

Where have you been for the last five years while the rest of us in this ng
sliced, diced, and thoroughly consumed this subject ad nauseam.

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford

"Al" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> I just happened to see a sticker on a fuel pump today that stated "may
> contain up to 10% ethanol"

RST Engineering wrote:
> Where have you been for the last five years while the rest of us in this ng
> sliced, diced, and thoroughly consumed this subject ad nauseam.
>
> Jim
>
Yep...guilty as charged.

I must admit, I wasn't paying close attention with regards to the E10
concept as we were using 100LL exclusively. When the lead fouling
cramped up an exhaust guide, I re-thought our fuel use and went to Mogas
in 2007, saving money and headaches. We have had an EPA E10 mandate in
our area in the past, but are no longer a "non-attanment area" so it was
lifted about 8 years ago.

I don't recall seeing details on the 9 billion gallon E10 mandate that
was enacted in December 2007 in the ng, but I could be wrong. And it
wasn't brought to light over the last week when the fuel industry
entered their first "April through September" reporting period.

Hopefully everyone in the group will forgive me for bringing this up again.

Al

????????????????????????????????????

We started seeing those 10% ethanol stickers in the mid 1980's here in
N.E. OH...they're quite prevalent now...

This is NEW in WA?????

On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 19:37:58 -0700, Al >
wrote:

>
>I just happened to see a sticker on a fuel pump today that stated "may
>contain up to 10% ethanol" while I was filling my car this morning.
>Upon further investigation with my fuel retailer, the local fuel jobber,
>and the fuel distributor here in Spokane, Washington that there is a
>federal mandate to add 9 billion gallons of ethanol per year to the
>nationwide gasoline fuel stream. A new twist is a 5.1 cent per gallon
>federal fuel tax break to the oil companies to get this "alternative"
>fuel into the market. Tomorrow (April 8) is the first day of the
>program and the dealers get their price tonight. According to my
>sources, there is a possibility that some retailers may opt out, however
>if that 5.1 cent break is passed on to them, it won't be likely.
>
>I was lucky and just happened to ask the right question at the right
>time. I haven't seen an outcry on this issue by EAA, AOPA or any other
>aviation group.
>
>This is a nationwide situation. Not just in a few states. You may not
>find non-ethanol autogas at your usual outlet. Our jobber started
>mixing in ethanol last week, however I had not purchased any since
>mid-March so was unaware.
>
>In essence, with the 5.1 cent per gallon tax break, the US federal
>government has just killed the Aviation autogas concept.
>
>I'm trying to locate a new source, but may not be successful. The
>ethanol is added at the distribution rack. Chevron and a couple others
>are requiring their retailers to go to E-10.
>
>
>Al Gilson
Don Byrer KJ5KB
Radar Tech & Smilin' Commercial Pilot Guy
Glider & CFI wannabe
kj5kb-at-hotmail.com

"I have slipped the surly bonds of earth; now if I can just land without bending the gear..."
"Watch out for those doves...<smack-smack-smack-smack...>"

Don Byrer wrote:
> ????????????????????????????????????
>
> We started seeing those 10% ethanol stickers in the mid 1980's here in
> N.E. OH...they're quite prevalent now...
>
> This is NEW in WA?????
>

We had the "oxygenated between October 1 and March 1" stickers in our
county when we were an EPA air pollution "non-attaninment area up until
about 8 years ago. Then they disappeared when new data showed pollution
levels dropped below the limit. The new stickers went on the pumps last
Monday.

Al

>>
>> We started seeing those 10% ethanol stickers in the mid 1980's here in
>> N.E. OH...they're quite prevalent now...
>>
>> This is NEW in WA?????
>>
>
> We had the "oxygenated between October 1 and March 1" stickers in our
> county when we were an EPA air pollution "non-attaninment area up until
> about 8 years ago. Then they disappeared when new data showed pollution
> levels dropped below the limit. The new stickers went on the pumps last
> Monday.
>
>
>
The "pollution levels" likely don't have anything to do with it.

The boys over at ADM probably discovered they all needed bigger bonuses
so they pulled the strings of your local congresscritter and Bingo! here
comes your ethanol.

Cheers,
Mike

Mike Spera wrote:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> The "pollution levels" likely don't have anything to do with it.
>
> The boys over at ADM probably discovered they all needed bigger bonuses
> so they pulled the strings of your local congresscritter and Bingo! here
> comes your ethanol.
>
> Cheers,
> Mike

Jeepers! Do you think that REALLY happens? I am, of course, appalled
that a professional legislator/lawmaker/politician would ever allow that
to happen!

:o)

Al

You are lucky you even got a sticker warning.

Snoop around though for a source for E0 unleaded premium. A lot of
states still have that available in some places. You are not the only
one looking for non-ethanol laced fuels.

On Apr 10, 1:22 pm, Don Byrer > wrote:
> ????????????????????????????????????
>
> We started seeing those 10% ethanol stickers in the mid 1980's here in
> N.E. OH...they're quite prevalent now...
>
> This is NEW in WA?????
>

In most areas of Washington state one can still find conventional
gasoline - I fill my Grumman with Chevon 92 octane at Everett WA.

Probably due to the climate and wind pattern, metro areas in WA did
not particularly have the air pollution problem back in the days when
ethanol was used merely as a oxygenate in winter blend to reduce CO
emission.

Nowadays ethanol is used primary as a scam to enrich corn farmers and
AG business. Thanks to AOPA lobby in 2005 Washington state has a
relatively sensible ethanol blending law that only requires 2% of
ethanol blend by 2009 measured in overall volumetric basis for each
fuel distributor (and not a per-gallon requirement) - which means the
oil companies will likely meet this state requirement by selling E10
in some areas and leave many areas alone with conventional gasonline
because it's cheaper for them to do it that way, or probably leave
ethanol out of Premium.

Transporting corn ethanol all the way to Seattle from mid-west is
expensive. Maybe that's why they do this at Spokane. The gasoline
supply of Pacific NW on the other hand came from refineries along the
coast with crude oil shipped from Alaska on oil tankers (Remember
Exxon Valdez?).

M wrote:

>>
>>We started seeing those 10% ethanol stickers in the mid 1980's here in
>>N.E. OH...they're quite prevalent now...
>>
>>This is NEW in WA?????
>
> In most areas of Washington state one can still find conventional
> gasoline - I fill my Grumman with Chevon 92 octane at Everett WA.
>
Drat! I'm jealous.
> Probably due to the climate and wind pattern, metro areas in WA did
> not particularly have the air pollution problem back in the days when
> ethanol was used merely as a oxygenate in winter blend to reduce CO
> emission.
>
Yep. That's what we had for a decade or so.
> Transporting corn ethanol all the way to Seattle from mid-west is
> expensive. Maybe that's why they do this at Spokane. The gasoline
> supply of Pacific NW on the other hand came from refineries along the
> coast with crude oil shipped from Alaska on oil tankers (Remember
> Exxon Valdez?).

Our pipelines come from Montana and Canada. In addition some fuel is
trucked from Columbia River barge terminals in the Tri-Cities.

Al